The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (11 Viewers)

[Sick Boy]

And I wouldn't as I am a right wing racist?

Some people need to be able to see past their nose to see what is going on.


There are good things about being in the EU. There are bad things about being in the EU. There are good things about being out the EU. There are bad things about being out of the EU.

Saying that we will crash and burn if and when we leave is like saying it would happen if we vote leave. We voted leave. Most didn't happen. Our economy has got stronger.

This is why I haven't used guesswork on here. I have used facts as we know them. And we don't know many. You tell me what sort of deal we will end up with and I will tell you which direction I think we will go in.

None of those that only say about the best parts of being in the EU will say on how to deal with our massive homeless problem. All they do is blame the present and past governments. This doesn't solve the problem. Just staying in the EU will make the problem worse. Or at least until Juncker goes and he is replaced by someone who cares more about the people than making a superstate that all uses the same currency of which they have no control over.

If you want to help poorer countries the best you could do is give them billions before they join. Let them sort their problems out. Then when strong enough they could join. But presently they join, join the Euro, then find out that their people leave for the immediate benefit. Then they get into more financial difficulties as they are tied to a stronger currency than their economy can handle. This puts them further into debt. So more money is constantly needed.

I am lucky. I am in a position financially to be able to retire. But I am not 50 yet. I have 4 motors. My newest is on a 55 plate. I don't need to keep up with the Joneses. Yet have only ever broken down once. I don't waste thousands each year renting a car that I call mine. I have 3 contract phones. I never pay what they say they cost. I hit the sales as much as I can. I'm off to Zante in a few days time. Just been shopping. Got 4 pairs of shorts. Reduced from £45 to a fiver each. Saved £160. Bought various tops. Saved on average £30 on each. And they will all do for next year.

I don't go spending everything I have got each month. I don't count myself as being skint only when I have run out of credit. I plan for the future all the time. I won't have the millionaire lifestyle when I retire. My plan is to buy a new motor for the first time in my life. It will be about 80k for a motorhome. And spend the rest of my days either following my football club all over or touring Europe. All I will need is fuel money, site fees and money for food and a lot of drink. I would need about the same to stay at home and do nothing.

What happens is you have a lot of people that spend everything they have then blame others for being skint all the time.

You have to plan for the future. You can't rely on politicians. Most are after what is best for them. They are not bothered what happens to you.

Let's hope that you won't need a Schengen visa then.

 

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[Astute]

The FDP have a History of being a junior coalition partner. Last time with the CDU they screwed up. The SDP have repeated that they want to be the opposition party - if not AfD will be the largest opposition party. AfD have no real policy apart from we don't want foreigners. They will be like Trump... achieve nothing because they have no idea. BTW Schultz has said May is talking crap. Just pandering to U.K. Politics. He says the EU should not give her a transition period.

I'm not too sure. It depends on who you listen to. Just normal politics.

It is the lowest the SDP have gone post war. Merkel has lost close to a quarter of the votes she got last time also.

The German people are not as happy with the EU as many would like you to believe. It is the same story over a lot of the EU.

So are well over 10% of Germans racist or do they want change? And how many more would have given their vote to the AfD if they were not seen as a racist party?

What is your take on it Mart?

 

[Astute]

Let's hope that you won't need a Schengen visa then.

A passport will be good enough. Too many people in the EU depend on us having a holiday there to make things difficult.

 

[martcov]

I'm not too sure. It depends on who you listen to. Just normal politics.

It is the lowest the SDP have gone post war. Merkel has lost close to a quarter of the votes she got last time also.

The German people are not as happy with the EU as many would like you to believe. It is the same story over a lot of the EU.

So are well over 10% of Germans racist or do they want change? And how many more would have given their vote to the AfD if they were not seen as a racist party?

What is your take on it Mart?

The analysis is that 60% of their voters ( according to polls ) used it as a protest vote - especially in the East. Where I am AfD is below 10% in the East up to over 20% in Saxony. It is seen as Nazi or racist- there are demos in Berlin in front of the building where they are celebrating. That implies that the majority of their voters are not hard line racists. There are some bad people in it though. I hope the FDP liberals get a good deal. They want an immigration law or ministry which lays down migration rules and the strengthening of the EU exterior borders.

The SPD have lost their basis to AfD in the working class areas because of the immigration problems.

 

[Sick Boy]

A passport will be good enough. Too many people in the EU depend on us having a holiday there to make things difficult.

Then presumably you will have no problem with EU citizens entering the UK with only a passport and no visa restrictions and to be able to stay as long as they like?

 

[Astute]

Then presumably you will have no problem with EU citizens entering the UK with only a passport and no visa restrictions and to be able to stay as long as they like?

As I keep saying lets see what sort of deal is made.

 

[Sick Boy]

As I keep saying lets see what sort of deal is made.

Sadly I'm now not convinced that a deal will be reached.

 

[martcov]

I'm not too sure. It depends on who you listen to. Just normal politics.

It is the lowest the SDP have gone post war. Merkel has lost close to a quarter of the votes she got last time also.

The German people are not as happy with the EU as many would like you to believe. It is the same story over a lot of the EU.

So are well over 10% of Germans racist or do they want change? And how many more would have given their vote to the AfD if they were not seen as a racist party?

What is your take on it Mart?

All other parties are pro EU... 87% voted for them.

 

[Astute]

The analysis is that 60% of their voters ( according to polls ) used it as a protest vote - especially in the East. Where I am AfD is below 10% in the East up to over 20% in Saxony. It is seen as Nazi or racist- there are demos in Berlin in front of the building where they are celebrating. That implies that the majority of their voters are not hard line racists. There are some bad people in it though. I hope the FDP liberals get a good deal. They want an immigration law or ministry which lays down migration rules and the strengthening of the EU exterior borders.

The SPD have lost their basis to AfD in the working class areas because of the immigration problems.

Take a look at this.
German elections 2017: Angela Merkel wins fourth term but AfD makes gains – as it happened

 

[Astute]

All other parties are pro EU... 87% voted for them.

Schulz said on the run up not to give us anything. His party got their lowest vote post war.

Germany sells a lot here. Are their people worried where the pro EU direction is going? Lots have already had enough of freedom of movement. We are not alone.

Merkel will have to change if she wants to survive. Will Juncker be happy to see her struggle and maybe lose her place as PM of his biggest money giver?

You can guess if you like. I will wait and see.

 

[Sick Boy]

Schulz said on the run up not to give us anything. His party got their lowest vote post war.

Germany sells a lot here. Are their people worried where the pro EU direction is going? Lots have already had enough of freedom of movement. We are not alone.

Merkel will have to change if she wants to survive. Will Juncker be happy to see her struggle and maybe lose her place as PM of his biggest money giver?

You can guess if you like. I will wait and see.

I was under the impression that there is anxiety over non-EU migration? I wasn't aware that the Germans were resentful of other EU citizens moving there.

Even Farage mentioned that he was surprised that Brexit hadn't been mentioned as part of the election campaign?

 

[Astute]

All other parties are pro EU... 87% voted for them.

87% never voted for the party seen as racist. It doesn't mean that they are Pro EU.

How many in the UK voted for Farage? Were those who never voted for him Pro EU?


Isn't it strange how someone can take facts and make it into fiction.

 

[Sick Boy]

87% never voted for the party seen as racist. It doesn't mean that they are Pro EU.

How many in the UK voted for Farage? Were those who never voted for him Pro EU?


Isn't it strange how someone can take facts and make it into fiction.

The same claims have been made by Leavers and members of this forum to claim that 80% of the UK now back Brexit.

 

[Astute]

I was under the impression that there is anxiety over non-EU migration? I wasn't aware that the Germans were resentful of other EU citizens moving there.

Even Farage mentioned that he was surprised that Brexit hadn't been mentioned as part of the election campaign?

So the million migrants that arrived in one year that they keep mentioning were all from outside the EU?

 

[Grendel]

All other parties are pro EU... 87% voted for them.

95% of the uk voters voted for parties who want to leave. Not sure your point there.

 

[Astute]

The same claims have been made by Leavers and members of this forum to claim that 80% of the UK now back Brexit.

OK point it out.

I am happy to have a debate with anyone. But not when they make their own lies....sorry.....facts up.

 

[Grendel]

The same claims have been made by Leavers and members of this forum to claim that 80% of the UK now back Brexit.

96% according to you and Martcov logic

 

[Sick Boy]

So the million migrants that arrived in one year that they keep mentioning were all from outside the EU?

Yes it was the Syrian refugee crisis. Merkel was very naive though and made the situation much worse.

 

[Sick Boy]

OK point it out.

I am happy to have a debate with anyone. But not when they make their own lies....sorry.....facts up.

I fully agree, claims that every Lab and Con voter were backing Brexit were lies.

 

[Astute]

I fully agree, claims that every Lab and Con voter were backing Brexit were lies.

Here we go again. Something you either can't or won't answer so you change the subject with a stupid comment.

You have become engrossed in the Brexit vote so much that you don't have a clue what the people of the EU are really thinking. You don't care as long as you get cheaper fruit and veg. You think that everyone who has a different view to yourself is wrong.

It is very sad that ordinary people are voting for racist parties as they have no say in matters. This gives the parties a voice. Freedom of speech gives them the right to be heard.

 

[Sick Boy]

Here we go again. Something you either can't or won't answer so you change the subject with a stupid comment.

You have become engrossed in the Brexit vote so much that you don't have a clue what the people of the EU are really thinking. You don't care as long as you get cheaper fruit and veg. You think that everyone who has a different view to yourself is wrong.

It is very sad that ordinary people are voting for racist parties as they have no say in matters. This gives the parties a voice. Freedom of speech gives them the right to be heard.

I was actually agreeing with your earlier point, but oh well.

Anyway, I would estimate half of my friends in the UK are from the EU. I also have friends across Europe, thanks...believe it or not, some of are even eurosceptics themselves, but they are more anti-Euro than EU and have concerns about non-EU migration.

I also believe it was inevitable that there would be a backlash following on from Merkel's open door policy with Syria. I'm not sure why you seemed to think the 1 million was referring to EU migration?

I don't think I've ever mentioned getting cheaper fruit or vegetables? I am concerned about inflation though and the poorest in our society being able to afford food.

 

[Astute]

I was actually agreeing with your earlier point, but oh well.

Anyway, I would estimate half of my friends in the UK are from the EU. I also have friends across Europe, thanks...believe it or not, some of are even eurosceptics themselves, but they are more anti-Euro than EU and have concerns about non-EU migration.

I also believe it was inevitable that there would be a backlash following on from Merkel's open door policy with Syria. I'm not sure why you seemed to think the 1 million was referring to EU migration?

I don't think I've ever mentioned getting cheaper fruit or vegetables? I am concerned about inflation though and the poorest in our society being able to afford food.

The Euro is a massive part of the EU. I think I have mentioned it enough times now.

Juncker wants to expand the EU and Euro. It will create more problems. There are enough as it is.

 

[Astute]

The right skills mix not needed?

Refugee reality: Germany admits 75% face long-term unemployment and life on benefits

 

[clint van damme]

No because they backed the wrong horse.

they always do.

Lol no

why not? I'm not talking about winning the next election just clawing back some seats. The Labour remain vote is pissed off and will have to go somewhere.

 

[martcov]

Schulz said on the run up not to give us anything. His party got their lowest vote post war.

Germany sells a lot here. Are their people worried where the pro EU direction is going? Lots have already had enough of freedom of movement. We are not alone.

Merkel will have to change if she wants to survive. Will Juncker be happy to see her struggle and maybe lose her place as PM of his biggest money giver?

You can guess if you like. I will wait and see.

No-one voted because Schultz wanted the EU to give us no concessions. No-one was interested in Brexit. Most want a strong EU. Those are not guesses.

The main issues for AfD voters were immigration, Islam and security. The AfD cannot agree internally on things like pensions and minimum wage ( compulsory or not ). People didn't vote AfD because of their competence. 60% voted purely as a protest vote ( according to polls ).

The immigrants that are least popular here are the Nafris ( North African from Marocco, Tunisia and Algeria ) and the Sinti and
Roma from Bulgaria and Romania. The country is split on the refugees. Some who voted AfD said the were for refugees, but were concerned about the lack of control, integration problems and are unhappy that they weren't consulted.

In the East the AfD are much stronger than where I am.

 

[martcov]

87% never voted for the party seen as racist. It doesn't mean that they are Pro EU.

How many in the UK voted for Farage? Were those who never voted for him Pro EU?


Isn't it strange how someone can take facts and make it into fiction.

There was no real anti EU debate. Even the AfD concentrated on immigrants and security.

They say that the EU shouldn't decide immigration or refugee policy - which means that there should be some form of EU. Gauland said that - it's not a guess.

 

[martcov]

87% never voted for the party seen as racist. It doesn't mean that they are Pro EU.

How many in the UK voted for Farage? Were those who never voted for him Pro EU?


Isn't it strange how someone can take facts and make it into fiction.

No party has called for Drexit. All parties in the elefant round after the vote - except AfD which said the EU should be altered - said we need more EU.

 

[martcov]

96% according to you and Martcov logic

There were no calls for Drexit. Most people accept the EU. The refugees and their integration are the massive problem. Many will be sent home after the war - according to the Innenminister, but many people don't believe that.

Never heard a complaint about EU migrants- except the Roma and Sinti who live by their own rules. I don't understand how they are stil here as they don't fit in with the rules.

 

[martcov]

So the million migrants that arrived in one year that they keep mentioning were all from outside the EU?

Yes. They were talking about refugees - and hangers on.

 

[Astute]

they always do.



why not? I'm not talking about winning the next election just clawing back some seats. The Labour remain vote is pissed off and will have to go somewhere.

The Labour leave voters are also pissed off. Most of the leave voters are pissed off. It is being run by a remainer who wants to stay in longer than we should. Is it part of a plan?

 

[martcov]

The Labour leave voters are also pissed off. Most of the leave voters are pissed off. It is being run by a remainer who wants to stay in longer than we should. Is it part of a plan?

I doubt whether any plan was foreseen. No one knows where we are headed and May is playing for time.

 

[Astute]

No party has called for Drexit. All parties in the elefant round after the vote - except AfD which said the EU should be altered - said we need more EU.

So what the parties are saying is what the voters are saying?

Yesterday's vote should have opened your eyes. But it won't. Merkel lost nearly a quarter of her votes. The SDP lost even more. A new party came 3rd. They want out. They got nearly half of Merkels vote. And they would have got a lot more if they were not seen as racist.

 

[Astute]

I doubt whether any plan was foreseen. No one knows where we are headed and May is playing for time.

That quote works both ways if you count 'we' as the UK or Germany.

 

[Sick Boy]

So what the parties are saying is what the voters are saying?

Yesterday's vote should have opened your eyes. But it won't. Merkel lost nearly a quarter of her votes. The SDP lost even more. A new party came 3rd. They want out. They got nearly half of Merkels vote. And they would have got a lot more if they were not seen as racist.

I don't think they actually want out of the EU. They are certainly against a even closer union though. Maybe Mart can clarify?

 

[martcov]

So what the parties are saying is what the voters are saying?

Yesterday's vote should have opened your eyes. But it won't. Merkel lost nearly a quarter of her votes. The SDP lost even more. A new party came 3rd. They want out. They got nearly half of Merkels vote. And they would have got a lot more if they were not seen as racist.

The majority want in the EU - voters and parties - and the government needs more EU immigration. Job Centres in some places are advertising in Greece and Spain.

Brexit and Trump have shown what can go wrong.

AfD have no policies and are not seen as competent - racist or not. 60% are protest votes - according to exit polls.

They will agrue with each other and it is likely there will be splits.