So this is more like the old days (1 Viewer)

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
And we still have the same issues ref: the running of the club we have had for a good while, ever since we were relegated from the top flight, in fact...

And at least the focus on the club stops it being a council v SISU effort, meaning criticism of the club can be abundently clear ;)

The problem (and it's a problem we're not alone in suffering) with sport becoming business, is that there's little incentive for an owner to look for the long term improvment of a club as a club. What's more important is attempting to gain financial capital, increase turnover... make the club more saleable for profit.

So what happens, is clubs end up focussing on the first team playing staff ahead of everything else. Managers don't have an incentive to do anything else, as fans turn against them, and owners sack them as an easy target if and when results don't come.

The problem is, that ignore the infrastructure of the club, and you're at risk of needing a perfect storm. This happens on occasion (think Blackpool), but without the foundations in place, the club will soon revert to type. It's probably not coincidental that despite Norwich struggling to stay in the top flight whenever they get there, they were able to bounce back from relegation into our division, and have owners who rather than bail at the first sign of trouble, stuck to their philosophy.

We need...

A ground (sorry!)

An improved training ground (although it's not... bad)

Maintenance of a youth system

A defined path from youth to first team.

Improved scouting.

Imrpoved community relations.

None of this is free.

But in spending the money in those directions, the first team can sometimes get worse and worse before it gets better... and that costs even more money. So fans get annoyed, and owners react because what they want is results, so what they want is a return on investment.

So the cycle continues - the first team gets the emphasis, we get a focus on 'names' such as Sherwood, Cole etc. to try and boost a profile, and this takes money away from investment in the infrastructure.

A well-managed club starts from the very top. Anybody who's worked in somewhere strapped for cash will be able to relate to the fact that no matter how good you are, if resources are stretched, then the best member of staff struggles to perform as they're capable of.

Now... getting the infrastructure doesn't guarantee success, but it does go some way to smoothing out the bumps.

*That's* where our focus should be. Our owners need to commit to that with actions rather than words... and then the rest ought to become a lot easier, including the first team.

But who's prepared to take the time to see that come to fruition?
 

oucho

Well-Known Member
Agreed mate. The core issue is that the same season keeps repeating itself, with different variants - financial losses and mid-table anonymity / relegation battle, regardless of what league we're in. Leads to best players being sold to plug the gaps in the budget, sack the manager - results continue to be inconsistent due to lack of stability, cycle repeats itself.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
There's a lot of philosophy here but really all we actually need is a manager who can get the team in the top 6 and have the tools and personality to maintain the position.

It doesn't matter about playing style, long term development or infrastructure.

If we'd booted Mowbray much earlier and paid Neil Warnock we'd be still in the top 6.

Short term is that matters and always will.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
There's a lot of philosophy here but really all we actually need is a manager who can get the team in the top 6 and have the tools and personality to maintain the position.

It doesn't matter about playing style, long term development or infrastructure.

If we'd booted Mowbray much earlier and paid Neil Warnock we'd be still in the top 6.

Short term is that matters and always will.

What makes you so sure Warnock would have come?
 

ccfcway

Well-Known Member
There's a lot of philosophy here but really all we actually need is a manager who can get the team in the top 6 and have the tools and personality to maintain the position.

It doesn't matter about playing style, long term development or infrastructure.

isn't that what every club needs ?
 

The Reverend Skyblue

Well-Known Member
And we still have the same issues ref: the running of the club we have had for a good while, ever since we were relegated from the top flight, in fact...

And at least the focus on the club stops it being a council v SISU effort, meaning criticism of the club can be abundently clear ;)

The problem (and it's a problem we're not alone in suffering) with sport becoming business, is that there's little incentive for an owner to look for the long term improvment of a club as a club. What's more important is attempting to gain financial capital, increase turnover... make the club more saleable for profit.

So what happens, is clubs end up focussing on the first team playing staff ahead of everything else. Managers don't have an incentive to do anything else, as fans turn against them, and owners sack them as an easy target if and when results don't come.

The problem is, that ignore the infrastructure of the club, and you're at risk of needing a perfect storm. This happens on occasion (think Blackpool), but without the foundations in place, the club will soon revert to type. It's probably not coincidental that despite Norwich struggling to stay in the top flight whenever they get there, they were able to bounce back from relegation into our division, and have owners who rather than bail at the first sign of trouble, stuck to their philosophy.

We need...

A ground (sorry!)

An improved training ground (although it's not... bad)

Maintenance of a youth system

A defined path from youth to first team.

Improved scouting.

Imrpoved community relations.

None of this is free.

But in spending the money in those directions, the first team can sometimes get worse and worse before it gets better... and that costs even more money. So fans get annoyed, and owners react because what they want is results, so what they want is a return on investment.

So the cycle continues - the first team gets the emphasis, we get a focus on 'names' such as Sherwood, Cole etc. to try and boost a profile, and this takes money away from investment in the infrastructure.

A well-managed club starts from the very top. Anybody who's worked in somewhere strapped for cash will be able to relate to the fact that no matter how good you are, if resources are stretched, then the best member of staff struggles to perform as they're capable of.

Now... getting the infrastructure doesn't guarantee success, but it does go some way to smoothing out the bumps.

*That's* where our focus should be. Our owners need to commit to that with actions rather than words... and then the rest ought to become a lot easier, including the first team.

But who's prepared to take the time to see that come to fruition?

I agree totally with your every word NW, but why our club suffers differently from the majority is the patience of most of our fans have run out, they just can't face another year or years for your points to grow

The fans of most clubs haven't had to endure 40 odd unsuccessful league campaigns like we have had to. Clubs go through mostly a decade of unfruitful times , even the league two teams have the odd great season, so their fans have a bit more patience when times are a bit tough.

As I said for 40 years we have had diddly squat to cheer about so we have no patience left to put your common sense ideas you point out in place then allow the time ,probably many years , mentally to let these things to grow and produce. This club has been run appallingly for decades, but I agree someone has got to grab the bull by the horns and spend a lot of money on this club to sort the infrastructure out once and for all.

That's why this season has been so difficult to take, at last we thought we were going to have something to shout about, but bad decisions and signings have ruined all the hope we had.

How this club still gets 10,000 fans for a league one game against Colchester is a miracle after all the club puts them through. We do have some fantastic fans and the club are so lucky to have 99.9% of them
 
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albatross

Well-Known Member
There's a lot of philosophy here but really all we actually need is a manager who can get the team in the top 6 and have the tools and personality to maintain the position.

It doesn't matter about playing style, long term development or infrastructure.

If we'd booted Mowbray much earlier and paid Neil Warnock we'd be still in the top 6.

Short term is that matters and always will.

So on your thinking Alex Ferguson would have been sacked by Man Utd before becoming probably the most successful and respected manager in the modern era.

Think again.
 
D

Deleted member 2477

Guest
God call the samaritans for the rev.
nothing to cheer about in the last 40 years. I supose 1987 was just a dream then ?
 

no_loyalty

Well-Known Member
God call the samaritans for the rev.
nothing to cheer about in the last 40 years. I supose 1987 was just a dream then ?

To be fair to the Rev Marcus, I think he is only on about league success
 

mrtrench

Well-Known Member
And we still have the same issues ref: the running of the club we have had for a good while, ever since we were relegated from the top flight, in fact...

The running of the club went wrong some years before we were relegated IMO.
 

ClarkeZ

Active Member
God call the samaritans for the rev.
nothing to cheer about in the last 40 years. I supose 1987 was just a dream then ?

Ok, nothing to cheer about in 29 years, one cup run that a significant amount of our fan base now either have no memory of or were not alive for.

Our recent history of league finishes in reverse chronological order:
17th
18th
15th
23rd (relegated)
18th
19th
17th
21st
17th
8th (best finish since 1989)
19th
12th
20th
11th
19th (relegated)
14th
15th
11th
17th
16th
16th

You get the picture. Its just permanent mediocrity. We haven't managed to do anything for as long as makes any difference to the fans now. Yes past success (in singular form) is great but that has zero impact on anything whatsoever now does it?

As has been said, almost all other clubs have had some form of success in the past 20-30 years. A promotion, even a JPT trip to Wembley would be something, a playoff position regardless of the outcome. To have something to fight for (other than relegation) on the last day of the season would be enough.
For a club that has produced the exact sum of fuck all in generations to get more than 10,000 fans on a Tuesday night against bottom of league 1 Colchester is a miracle. But Coventry isn't a brand and not a prospect of becoming one. The city is looked down on around the country as a concrete hole in the ground in an area (west midlands) with the lowest gross disposable household income in the UK, why would people put money into it? Unless a manager gets really lucky, or the Wasps have a knock on influence that helps the sports industry in the city, we need to expect very little change i fear.
 

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
The running of the club went wrong some years before we were relegated IMO.

Wasn't run well, but there was a semblence of a long-term plan.

Once we went down, that went out the window and it became a desperate season-by-season attempt to muddle through and get lucky. When SISU came in the same pattern followed, after initial lip-service to the long-term.
 

Calista

Well-Known Member
Our recent history of league finishes in reverse chronological order:
17th
18th
15th
23rd (relegated)
18th
19th
17th
21st
17th
8th (best finish since 1989)
19th
12th
20th
11th
19th (relegated)
14th
15th
11th
17th
16th
16th

I was trying to work out what you meant by reverse chronological order. And then I looked at the figures and realised it makes fcuk all difference which way round you put them :)

Not sure why you left off the next 5 in the sequence, which are 11th, 15th, 19th, 16th and 12th? To be honest our seasons could be played back in shuffle mode, and it would be hard to tell any difference.

As powerless fans, what else can we do but take a kind of perverse pride in this?
 

blueflint

Well-Known Member
we don't need our own ground although it would be preferable we do need a playing staff that want to be part of a success story
loans don't have that commitment in general
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
We don't want our own ground unless it is in Coventry or is really, really close to Coventry.
 

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
Totally irrelevant to rehash the old arguments when the thrust of this is that the club needs foundations.

Don't get bogged down in the tedium of who said what to who, and *whoever* is the owner of the club needs to invest in the long term health of the *club* to aid the short-term health of the *team*.
 

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