Do you want to discuss boring politics? (18 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

If the answer is "we're going to cut departmental spending by £45bn to fund it" - where does Labour go next? Oh that's awful or oh we agree with your sound money philosophy

They go “look normies, the Tories want to cut your services to give their rich mates tax cuts”

Which is a lot easier to get across in a soundbite that might get on the 6 O’Clock news than a lecture on macroeconomic theory.

 

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[JAM See]

Nicotine on its own is a pretty good drug TBF. Weight loss, focus, extensively used by people with severe mental health issues to self medicate (the stats for schizophrenia and smoking are ridiculous). The delivery mechanism of burning shit and sucking it into your mouth is terrible though. And obvs the addiction issues. Though I know people addicted to caffeine on a similar level.

Are we as a society saying addiction alone is the requirement for a ban? I think it’s a fair bar, but one that would require gambling being looked at as well as a fair few others things (insert porn addiction is it real debate here).

I think generally I err on the side of personal responsibility for things that generally only affect the individual. I don’t think the state can keep everyone safe from themselves all the time. As long as the externalities are appropriately taxed so other people arent picking up your tab.

Once you get into deciding certain things should be banned, that logic almost always takes you to unintended places. Impact on NHS? Look at fast food. Addiction? Gambling. Impact on society? Alcohol. I’m just not sure there’s a clean line that puts bad things on one side and good on the other. I’m also very wary of banning psychoactives without a solid understanding of how we can replace what they bring to a lot of people in terms of coping strategies for mental health.

I didn't say I'd ban it.
I just wish it didn't exist.

 

[JAM See]

The problem I have with the cigarette ban is where do we go from there and is there really any proof that it will work. Personally I think there’s a bigger case for legalising cannabis and licensing the sale of it. And cannabis is the perfect example of something being banned and that ban not working. The health risks from smoking is unquestionable, as is the risks for drinking alcohol and if anything alcohol when you look at the bigger picture is more damaging to society. It puts a strain on the NHS same as smoking, it increases violence both in the streets and in the home unlike smoking and also puts a strain on the judicial system as a consequence of that. When you look at the facts for both alcohol is a far bigger problem for society as a whole not least because it affects every aspect of society but alcohol is used by a far bigger percentage of society.

Although, alcohol is, by and large, a drug that people consume intermittently, to gain enjoyment.

Nicotine use (smoking) is a constant battle to stave off withdrawal.

The two are not compatible for the vast majority of consumers.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The problem I have with the cigarette ban is where do we go from there and is there really any proof that it will work. Personally I think there’s a bigger case for legalising cannabis and licensing the sale of it. And cannabis is the perfect example of something being banned and that ban not working. The health risks from smoking is unquestionable, as is the risks for drinking alcohol and if anything alcohol when you look at the bigger picture is more damaging to society. It puts a strain on the NHS same as smoking, it increases violence both in the streets and in the home unlike smoking and also puts a strain on the judicial system as a consequence of that. When you look at the facts for both alcohol is a far bigger problem for society as a whole not least because it affects every aspect of society but alcohol is used by a far bigger percentage of society.

I think banning cigarettes is filled with problems. The loss of tax dollars allied to the increased cost in enforcing the ban. The opportunities for crime to fill the void and the lack of control over what is in them, which in turn will have costs involved with people's health.

I'm more for legalisation and contol. And while I know that itself is fraught with problems and dangers it just seems it allows far more control over the issue.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

This line of questioning is ridiculous, the government does not need to 'fund' it. Labour going with the household budget mantra to a greater extent than the government.

Considering it's Tories no.1 go to for any Labour policy it seems fair they get asked the same. Rightly or wrongly, it seems to resonate with voters.

And it's not like they're going to say "we're a sovereign currency so we can print money" so it's a trap that needs an answer. Though chances are they'll make up the bullshit of it creating jobs as people will spend more money.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Although, alcohol is, by and large, a drug that people consume intermittently, to gain enjoyment.

Nicotine use (smoking) is a constant battle to stave off withdrawal.

The two are not compatible for the vast majority of consumers.

But then you have to ask where the enjoyment comes from? If someone says they can't have an enjoyable night out without a drink, I'd suggest that there is some level of addiction.

 

[wingy]

I think banning cigarettes is filled with problems. The loss of tax dollars allied to the increased cost in enforcing the ban. The opportunities for crime to fill the void and the lack of control over what is in them, which in turn will have costs involved with people's health.

I'm more for legalisation and contol. And while I know that itself is fraught with problems and dangers it just seems it allows far more control over the issue.

If they can do that and other stuff we're going to end up like machines they can work for ever!
Of course they can also prescribe that all the young folks can trot off to war and end yourself!

 

[wingy]

In addition to this gonna be a lot of city fan's disobeying the rules the amount of HT puffers!

 

[shmmeee]

Although, alcohol is, by and large, a drug that people consume intermittently, to gain enjoyment.

Nicotine use (smoking) is a constant battle to stave off withdrawal.

The two are not compatible for the vast majority of consumers.

I’ve seen more lives ruined by alcohol than nicotine by a long long shot. And there’s 600k recognised alcohol dependents in this country and 10m who drink too much to be healthy. Compared to 6.4m smokers.

By your logic you’d also ban caffeine, which is addictive and causes horrible withdrawals. And gambling, which is also as addictive and ruins many more lives.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Interesting shmmeee that you’re a libertarian and wouldn’t ban them. On balance I wouldn’t either but my dad was a nasty man on alcohol

 

[shmmeee]

Interesting shmmeee that you’re a libertarian and wouldn’t ban them. On balance I wouldn’t either but my dad was a nasty man on alcohol

I generally wouldn’t ban anything that affects just the person doing it. Alcohol and some hard drugs test that cos of societal impacts. But equally I’d be a lot tougher on things like casual violence and antisocial behaviour.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I generally wouldn’t ban anything that affects just the person doing it. Alcohol and some hard drugs test that cos of societal impacts. But equally I’d be a lot tougher on things like casual violence and antisocial behaviour.

Nuance hey it’ll never work!!!
How you feeling about Sunday?

 

[shmmeee]

Nuance hey it’ll never work!!!
How you feeling about Sunday?

I have a zen like acceptance that we’ll get spanked.

 

[skybluetony176]

Wasn’t it Mark Menzies who got caught with a Brazilian rent boy?

Tory MP Mark Menzies suspended over alleged misuse of campaign funds

Fylde MP Mark Menzies strongly disputes claims he asked a party volunteer for £5,000 to pay "bad people".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[CCFCSteve]

Wasn’t it Mark Menzies who got caught with a Brazilian rent boy?

Tory MP Mark Menzies suspended over alleged misuse of campaign funds

Fylde MP Mark Menzies strongly disputes claims he asked a party volunteer for £5,000 to pay "bad people".

www.bbc.co.uk

What the fuck is wrong with MPs, in particular Tories ones. Can’t keep their trousers on ! Embarrassing

Dipping into campaign funds to cover for his dirty little mess, defo a police matter and should be sacked. Probably walk away with nice MP pension though. It’s a disgrace

 

[fernandopartridge]

What the fuck is wrong with MPs, in particular Tories ones. Can’t keep their trousers on ! Embarrassing

Dipping into campaign funds to cover for his dirty little mess, defo a police matter and should be sacked. Probably walk away with nice MP pension though. It’s a disgrace

It's a criminal gang in suits

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

What the fuck is wrong with MPs, in particular Tories ones. Can’t keep their trousers on ! Embarrassing

Dipping into campaign funds to cover for his dirty little mess, defo a police matter and should be sacked. Probably walk away with nice MP pension though. It’s a disgrace

I agree he should face consequences, but the amount of money involved in this compared to the millions and sometimes billions that were handed out to their mates or vested interests throughout the pandemic is negligible. If the Tories who did that got away with it scott free, why should people like this guy get the book thrown at them?

 

[David O'Day]

Wasn’t it Mark Menzies who got caught with a Brazilian rent boy?

Tory MP Mark Menzies suspended over alleged misuse of campaign funds

Fylde MP Mark Menzies strongly disputes claims he asked a party volunteer for £5,000 to pay "bad people".

www.bbc.co.uk

Yes it was

You'd think by now the Tory party would be holding a few Grindr safety courses.

 

[shmmeee]

Think it’s Marie le Conte who said on Twitter it’s extremely funny seeing Tories desperately trying to make the Rayners scandal happen for months and failing miserably while legit scandals keep dropping about Tory MPs.

Big late 90s vibes.

 

[Flying Fokker]

Peter Murrell charged with embezzlement in SNP finance probe

The husband of Nicola Sturgeon had been re-arrested in connection with the SNP finances investigation.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Think it’s Marie le Conte who said on Twitter it’s extremely funny seeing Tories desperately trying to make the Rayners scandal happen for months and failing miserably while legit scandals keep dropping about Tory MPs.

Big late 90s vibes.

Damn straight

 

[skybluetony176]

There will be no downside, only considerable upsides

UK to delay start of health and safety checks on EU imports – report

New post-Brexit border checks ‘set to zero’ to avoid what Defra calls risk of serious disruption

www.theguardian.com

So long as we don’t implement what we conned you into voting for #takingbackcontrol.

 

[chiefdave]

The real Labour poll lead

How enthused or confident are voters at the prospect of a Keir Starmer government?

sotn.newstatesman.com

Found this quite interesting. The could be worse responses seem to give some weight to the idea that it's more a case of people not voting Conservative than having any great desire or incentive to vote Labour.

Obviously they will cruise to victory this time round but we all know the tories are masters of reinvention and shifting the blame on to someone else. With the state everything in you'd expect Labour to be in power for a long time but they don't seem to be connecting with voters so is there a risk it will be one term and out?

 

[Como]

The Tories do not need to do anything, if Labour do what they say they will all they need to do is stand back and watch.

I assume there will be a big change in the makeup of any future Tory MP base as many who will lose this time will not stand again.

 

[shmmeee]

Governments lose elections, oppositions don’t win them. ‘‘twas ever thus.

 

[shmmeee]

*Lights blue touch paper, withdraws to safe viewing distance*

 

[clint van damme]

*Lights blue touch paper, withdraws to safe viewing distance*

That's great, let's hope he doesn't perform another u turn.

 

[David O'Day]

The real Labour poll lead

How enthused or confident are voters at the prospect of a Keir Starmer government?

sotn.newstatesman.com

Found this quite interesting. The could be worse responses seem to give some weight to the idea that it's more a case of people not voting Conservative than having any great desire or incentive to vote Labour.

Obviously they will cruise to victory this time round but we all know the tories are masters of reinvention and shifting the blame on to someone else. With the state everything in you'd expect Labour to be in power for a long time but they don't seem to be connecting with voters so is there a risk it will be one term and out?

and that is all you need

The tories will do what they did after 1997 and jerk massively to the right (or even more) and then tack back to the centre

 

[shmmeee]

*stares disappointedly at previous blue touch paper, lights different blue touch paper more in hope than expectation*

 

[JAM See]

*stares disappointedly at previous blue touch paper, lights different blue touch paper more in hope than expectation*

Didn't read the text, just looked at the right/wrong graph.

Is this a poll about the offside decision on Sunday?

 

[David O'Day]

So the Scottish First minister needs to beg an MSP who he took the piss out off when they left the SNP to vote for him so he can keep his job

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So the Scottish First minister needs to beg an MSP who he took the piss out off when they left the SNP to vote for him so he can keep his job

Another party I look forward to seeing being canned at the next election